TRANSCRIPT
Welcome And Why It Matters
Deborah Borfitz
Hello and welcome to the Scope of Things podcast, a no-nonsense look at the promise and problems of clinical research based on a sweep of the latest news and emerging trends in the field. What I think is worthy of your 30 or so minutes of time. Please consider making this your trusted go-to channel for staying current on things that matter, whether they give us hope or cause for pause. In a few minutes, I'll be speaking with a pair of big pharma veterans, Ramona Burris, co-founder of Onyx Health Collective, and Cassandra O'Neill, founder of Illuminated Arc Consulting, about shifting tides in the health equity space and what to make of it. But first, the latest news, including the first clinical trial for cardiac digital twins technology, a novel protocol for treating a deadly form of C. diff infection, a UK initiative for accelerating dementia trials, the enterprise-wide rollout of an AI patient-finding platform at the Cleveland Clinic, 23andMe's new GLP1 report and interactive tool, and social listening for unreported side effects about the weight loss drugs on Reddit.
Deborah Borfitz
In what may be the first ever clinical trial for cardiac digital twins technology, researchers at Johns Hopkins University improved cardiac ablation outcomes for patients with life-threatening arrhythmias. They created digital replicas of the hearts of 10 patients and tested ablation procedures on those twins before performing them on the real thing. This resulted in a long-term success rate of 100% compared to 60% with traditional ablation treatments. Plus, eight patients could get off anti-arrhythmia medication, and the other two had their doses reduced. Cardiac digital twins are now expected to be used in a bigger trial, and the technology will be expanding to work with other cardiac diseases. In a recent clinical study at the University of Minnesota, researchers successfully treated a rare life-threatening form of C. diff infection characterized by a sepsis-like state with a novel fecal microbiota transplantation, or FMT, protocol. Among 18 patients treated, the approach was associated with rapid declines in inflammatory markers and achieved a 78% 30-day survival, shifting the prevailing scenario from one where people die to one where a strong majority survives. One important caveat is that the window for the FMT intervention is very narrow, so the formulation needs to be easily accessible. The university has a facility where FMT products are manufactured, so treatment units are always on hand in its cryobank, and the research team is working to make the treatment option more widely available to patients across the U.S.
Deborah Borfitz
The Dementia Trials Accelerator Initiative, led by a pair of research institutes in the UK, has welcomed its first participants into clinics for simple tests to intended to get the right people into clinical trials quicker. Over 15,500 older adults participating in React, one of the UK's largest cohort studies, have been invited to clinics run by diagnostic test provider ANUVI, and more than 800 people have taken part in just the first few weeks. Participation involves taking cognitive tests in addition to routine physical measurements and providing a blood sample that gets analyzed for biomarkers linked to dementia risk. By early 2027, the Dementia Trials Accelerator aims to have a pipeline of over 10,000 willing study participants whose information will be on a platform searchable by approved clinical trialists. A medically trained AI system is now patient-finding for clinical trials across the Cleveland Clinic in the U.S., following a two-year enterprise-wide rollout of the technology with partner Diania Health.
Deborah Borfitz
In a recently published Phase III heart failure study, the Synapsys AI platform identified nearly every match missed by traditional recruitment practices and did so within six days, with a near-perfect ability to rule out non-eligible patients utilizing just two GPUs. Racial, geographic, and what they call specialty connected diversity were additionally achieved. When evaluated against external physicians, the AI tool achieved 96.2% accuracy in answering 7,700 trial-specific questions. The AI tool is embedded within Cleveland Clinic's electronic medical record system, and all trial matches are made with a clinician in the loop. A new study by the 23NME Research Institute has identified genetic predictors for GLP1 weight loss efficacy and side effects, utilizing data from 27,885 individuals who have used the widely popular weight loss drugs. Among the key insights are a missense variant in the GLP1 receptor gene that is significantly associated with increased effectiveness, and that variation in both the GLP1 receptor and GIP receptor genes are linked to medication-related nausea or vomiting, although the effects were partially drug-specific. The genetic insights are now available in a GLP-1 report, an interactive tool available exclusively to members of its 23andE Total Health Service to help guide GLP1 treatment decisions in a supervised clinical context.
Health Equity Roles After Restructures
Deborah Borfitz
And finally, PAN researchers have used a large language model to surface unreported side effects of the GLP1 drugs semugalitide and tirzepetide from posts on the social media platform Reddit. In more than half a decade of posts from nearly 70,000 Reddit users, they found two main classes of symptoms that warrant further study: reproductive problems, including irregular menstrual cycle, and temperature-related complaints, such as chills and hot flashes. Fatigued fatigue ranked as the second most common complaint despite reaching reporting thresholds in relatively few clinical trials. That this computational social listening also does a good job of capturing the known side effects of the GLP1 drugs such as nausea suggests the method is picking up real signals. This kind of rapid AI-assisted social media analysis could become a useful way to spot early warning signs around emerging drugs and wellness trends. As a reminder, links to the articles, studies, and press releases referenced in this month's news segment can be found in the show notes. It is now time to bring in a dynamic duo to talk about health equity in clinical trials, which after a tumultuous few years remains a scientific imperative for ensuring treatment efficacy across all populations. Please help me in welcome to the show Ramona Burris and Cassandra O'Neal, who are going to be sharing their insider insights on how best to remove the persistent barriers. Hello, ladies.
Ramona Burress
Hello, Deb. Thank you for having us.
Cassandra O'Neal
Yes, thank you for having us.
Deborah Borfitz
Well, thank you for being here today. It has been a hard few years for people working in the health equity space while also creating some opportunities to leverage that same expertise in new ways. Ramona, Cassandra, how have you seen people creatively pivot to keep the momentum going in what used to be universally termed, dare I say it, DEI? And please don't be shy about sharing where you've personally been in this upheaval and where you've landed, because I know you both prefer to make things happen than simply sit things out.
Ramona Burress
Yeah, that's a great question. So I was impacted by organizational restructure about a little bit over a year ago now, where my team that I supported was dissolved because it uniquely sat within a health equity space. But when I think about this from the larger picture, and when I look at what I've been able to accomplish supporting other parts of the ecosystem of where Pharma sits, I don't think that this is industry challenge with understanding a problem. I think it's just designing the operating model to move it and solve for the problem statement consistently at scale. I think most clinical trial sponsors know which communities they need to reach. They understand the regulatory expectations. They understand that patient experience data is becoming increasingly required across different health authorities. But I don't think this shift is happening, nor are clinical trials falling short because leaders don't care. It seems to be that they lack that decision grade intelligence that allows them to maybe activate the right sites, invest at the right levels, and integrate community settings into that development strategy. I think that's the opportunity. And so now having sat, you know, at the patient care delivery side, the clinical trials operation side, the medical affairs side, my work now sits at the intersection of clinical development strategy, community infrastructure, and execution, just helping organizations translate intent into models that improve feasibility, enrollment in some of the spaces that we're more traditionally looking to see these efforts be reflected across. But ultimately, if you know a trial does not reflect the patient population, sponsors and companies are recognizing that they now have a validity issue.
Deborah Borfitz
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cassandra, what about you?
Cassandra O'Neal
Absolutely. And I'll build on what Ramona said. So for me, my role was also impacted, actually, just coming up on a year this July, where I was leading health equity efforts, but my role, you know, was absorbed into a different part of the organization. And headcount unfortunately did not go with that change. But it's been a really amazing time to look at what is the opportunity and how can I and others that work in this space contribute to health equity in a more meaningful way, and certainly a way that's broader than maybe the initial thinking that we we've all had. I want to really focus on something that Ramona said because I think this gets to the crux of what needs to happen and what is the future opportunity as it relates to health equity and really embedding that strategy within organizations. So Ramona touched on the fact that sponsors know, right? Generally, what needs to be done as it relates to health equity. We have a good understanding about who we need to approach and you know, maybe what might need to be done.
Cassandra O'Neal
But the challenge that I personally have encountered, and others have encountered, other colleagues, other corporations, other organizations have encountered is really how do you how do you do that? How do you operationalize this, you know, vision, this intent, as Ramona said. We need to really think about that a bit more because I think that's where organizations fall short. They have these really great, you know, ideas and and are very, you know, well-intentioned around the pursuit of creating a more equitable delivery model and healthcare and access for patients. But as we all know, the strategy piece, and and Ramona and I, you know, have talked about this over the years, the strategy piece is often, in my opinion, the easier part of this conversation. It's the oper, you know, operationalizing how do you actually get this to stand up, get roots, and you know, work within organizations. And I think that's the opportunity. So as I think about my, you know, pivot, and it's really not much of a pivot. It's I've been an operational leader for some time, really executing on strategies and designing strategies, but really figuring out how we can have health equity embedded throughout the organization is where we need to go. Yeah. I think that's a great opportunity that we we have right now. And the other thing that I think is really important, two other things, two other really good points to make here is being very clear in what we're trying to solve for.
Cassandra O'Neal
Because, you know, when you think about health equity, you could have many different perspectives around what is health equity? What are you trying to do? Who are you trying to reach? But every organization has a different opportunity, I would say, and needs to be very clear, crystal clear on what they're trying to solve for. If you can't figure out what you're trying to do, it's going to be incredibly difficult for you to actually do that, right? And then I'll say this last point because I do think that it's it needs to be said. And I think yeah, I do. I just I think it needs to be said. And I think Ramona and I, as we started our conversation, are really part of this, you know, kind of new way. Our roles were eliminated because of changing landscape within organizations. And there's intent, there's intention, but oftentimes there's not investment to back that up. And I think that if we are to be really serious about creating, you know, more equitable organizations, we we have to have investment. And that it doesn't mean that it needs to be this, you know, grandiose organizational structure, but you have to have the right resources and the right structure that fits your organization. And above everything else, executive sponsorship is is required in order to really move the needle here. So I'll say that because that's, you know, something that I think a lot of people are being impacted by, you know, perhaps a pullback of resources, but resources are required to do this work. So I'll leave that there.
Segmentation And Storytelling For Trust
Deborah Borfitz
Yeah, yeah. And this this next question I have for you actually may or may not be related to what you just said. But, well, we were lunching at the SCOPE conference back in February, something you said, you know, stuck with me about how companies might better achieve their health equity goals if they borrow from the playbook of marketers and started doing customer segmentation to reach different target markets, as well as do more storytelling generally about why this matters to science versus being associated with an illegal quota of some sort. Can you, you know, share more about your thinking on this front? I think that was super interesting.
Cassandra O'Neal
Absolutely. Ramona, do you want me to kind of go first on this one? Because I do have I have a lot of thoughts. So I've had the the privilege of working with different functional areas across the organization from RD to commercial and and sales and marketing. And I'm biased because I do have an MBA that focuses in healthcare marketing. So I will say that. But I I really think that there's a lot to be learned about people in general, patients, non-patients from marketers. Marketers are laser focused on figuring out who their customer, and in our case, and you know, in our industry, who our patients are, who are the people who will consume the products we're developing. They are very intentional about listening and understanding and segmenting the the their customers so that it does not take a one-size-fits-all approach to reaching the people. They are very clear about who they're trying to reach. I think about that in a very similar way as we think about health equity. Certainly in the marketing side, they've they've got it down to a science, right? Like they know who they need to reach. Whether they do and how they do it is a different conversation, but at least they have a, you know, I'd say a better understanding of where they should focus.
Cassandra O'Neal
I think when it comes to RD, and Ramona has a lot of experience in patient-centered drug design. I've been really fortunate throughout my career to be a part of that and this, you know, kind of shifting movement and moment towards that, listening to patients, understanding what they need, understanding the endpoints they would be looking for, getting their voice incorporated into protocol design and study design. That's all really, really important so that we can make sure that the programs we're putting out, the products ultimately we're putting out, it actually meets the needs of our customer or our patients in this case. So Ramona, I don't know if you have anything else to add, because this is an area of expertise for for you for sure.
Ramona Burress
Yeah, yeah, because that patient is like the expert of their lived experience, right? And when you think about some complicated disease states or neurologic conditions, that patient definition expands to caregivers. It expands to more in that ecosystem where we need to better understand what is their experience. And then if you go even broader, where we start to incorporate social determinants of health. Because to your point, Cassandra, when you do segmentation, you have to really drill down sometimes to that postal code level and go beyond just the traditional layers of like demographics that you know we focus on when it comes to trial execution or better understanding our customer. But with that, you have to recognize that community is not an external lever, right? It's part of the core infrastructure to really make sure that we're designing and executing modern clinical trials and that can even be extrapolated to like how do we find the sites where we're conducting these trials?
Ramona Burress
If we know we have a health condition where there's over-indexed prevalence and incidents within a group, you have to go to where those persons live and where they seek care. And sometimes that's not your traditional academic site. Sometimes it's a safety net hospital or federally qualified health center. So even with that dynamic of how we're working in pharma, you know, it's kind of like this dotted line connection. Once you get to that segmentation and you figure out where people are, how they like to receive their care, how they like to receive their information, we can then start to identify better, like who are those key opinion leaders we need to go after or where are those sites we need to integrate into our research. But, you know, unfortunately with Cass and I, we've we've seen the fragmentation of how this is done. And I think that's the rich opportunity too, inside of sponsored companies is to really be more collaborative in the thinking and approach when it comes to addressing health equity.
Deborah Borfitz
Wow, well put, well put, Ramona. Thank you so much for that.
Announcement
Are you enjoying the conversation? We'd love to hear from you. Please subscribe to the podcast and give us a rating. It helps other people find and join the conversation. If you've got speaker or topic ideas, we'd love to hear those too. You can send them in a podcast review.
Deborah Borfitz
I think another piece of this puzzle is related to my next question, and it's another memorable moment from our previous chat, is when we were talking about the need for a Switzerland, as we called it, to advance the health equity cause, because even in the best of times, there's historically been a lot of infighting, I guess you could call it, between siloed departments within pharma companies. I'd love it if you could expound on that idea a bit more, including who might serve as this sort of pivotal neutral party. Yeah.
Ramona Burress
Yeah, I have to go to how Cass and I got connected and how we started working together. She plucked me from medical affairs during the height of the pandemic when we were at a sponsor company. And she recognized that as she was creating this team that was focused on diversity and clinical trial efforts, diversity and equity efforts, initially in COVID, but across the portfolio, that I maybe had some value, right? And so the more that we started to kind of test and learn and have some successes in the RD space, I was able to move to another company where my health equity work was centered in Metafairs. But then I recognized the beauty of like how Metafairs supports that early drug development, right? That discovery, that getting ready for first in human, getting ready for phase two, phase three. But then they also support that product launch and you know that preparation for the commercial side of the business. So for me, I think a lot of this, if we're thinking from a life cycle perspective and where like where are those key points across building that target product profile, better understanding that segmentation of who we're going after from a patient perspective or from a clinician perspective or even from a country level perspective, that's where Metafairs really does have that broader kind of tentacles to support this effort, not just in phase two and phase three, but earlier on. And then, you know, definitely as we're looking at getting ready for launch for a lot of these assets. But Cass, I hate to put you on the spot, but you know, I give you credit a lot for, you know, recognizing this before this really became a thing about the beauty of Metafairs and RD collaborating.
Cassandra O'Neal
Oh, thanks, Ramona. And it listen, it I just I could see what you bought, the immense value you brought to the table with relationship building, understanding how medical affairs could be an asset to the RD world. And this was so for context, this was back in 2019, 2020 or so, where things were very siloed, but no, it was it was not hard at all to see. And I think we need to do more of that. I just want to add to something you said about yes, I called it Switzerland. I don't know, that's how I think about things like you know, other concepts, but it it truly needs to sit. Health equity I'm referring to truly needs to sit in a space where it has influence and can impact other areas of the business. It's funny because where does health equity sit? Where is the right place for it? Is a is a highly contested, debated, discussed question across organizations is where should it sit? And I think it's gonna vary from organization to organization, but the important thing for us to really keep in mind and for organizations to keep in mind is what is a neutral-ish part of the business where you can have influence in other parts of the business. And I think that's something.
Cassandra O'Neal
So in some companies, it might be corporate affairs that you know really can reach from end to end in terms of drug development and not only reach, but influence. It could be medical affairs that is really driving and connecting the dots between RD and commercial in another organization. Organization. I think organizations have to really think about what fits their model, their operating model, and they are all different and figure out where it should sit. But it the important thing is that it can actually impact and influence across the end-to-end drug development model. Sitting in a part of the organization where there's a, you know, a great firewall with another part is probably not a good choice if you're trying to create really an enterprise strategy. So just to underscore that.
Ramona Burress
But before we move away from this topic, Cass, let's go a bit a little bit deeper because I think you and I have found that it also matters with whom this sits, right? Yep. You want to add on to that?
Cassandra O'Neal
Absolutely. And we absolutely that this goes back to you know the elephant in the room, so to speak, that I addressed earlier on about investment. It is critical. Like you have to have the right sponsor for this kind of effort. Because if you do not, you are not going to influence anybody. I always think about, you know, this this work, and this is one of the things, you know, reflecting back on Ramona and I first worked together. You have to be in this space, strategic, inspirational is a very key thing, and influential. And I think that it starts at the top. So, you know, your executive sponsor, do you do you have one actually that sits? You know, C-suite is wonderful if you have that level of sponsorship. But if you don't have that level of sponsorship, what is your, you know, what is your sponsorship spine? Is one of my leaders used to always say that I love that because it truly is. You need a very strong spine in this. And who is going to be that influential sponsor to kick indoors and knock over? This sounds so negative. I don't mean it to sound that way, but you know, really remove obstacles so that you can embed across the organization it matters. It absolutely matters.
Medical Affairs As The Bridge
Deborah Borfitz
Okay. Well, we're gonna assume in from the next question that we have the supportive leadership about that. Because I want to backtrack a little bit and talk about the untapped role here for medical affairs. And since Ramona, you have that experience, you probably want to speak to this, especially, you know, because as you point out, they they touch the two worlds of clinical research and clinical practice. And this seems kind of like a little no-brainer. So I guess I'm a little surprised that this maybe doesn't happen as much as it could or should, or or maybe I just haven't heard about it. Is this taking place much yet? Or speak to the potential and the reality of the situation currently.
Ramona Burress
Yeah, I think it goes to Cass' points about, you know, how companies are structured. I think even understanding medical affairs is a challenge that industry is still dealing with because it's probably like the newest entity when you think about RD and commercial. But the beauty of Metafairs, being able to, you know, straddle the fence to your point with the clinical research and clinical practice, that is powerful in itself. But what needs to come with that is having that executive, that C-suite buy-in to empower Metafairs leaders to be more directly involved in conversations that, you know, require budget, that require input on strategy for site selection and community integration. So there's an opportunity here, but I've seen it done successfully across two or more different companies. And where I sit now in a consulting space and even now having opened my own medical practice where I'm partnering with Pharma to do this in real time. I do recognize that medical affairs is the most unique place to really get things done and to really be thoughtful and deliberate.
Ramona Burress
Because, you know, we really need to bring the science back into how we do health equity, how we do patient engagement. You know, it should not be fluffy. There is a very tangible ROI and business importance when it comes to what we do, how we do it, and whom we do it with. And I think that is the unique opportunity that if we put this in medical affairs, it allows for the richness of the, you know, doing it for purpose, fit-for-purpose engagement, but also using real data, whether it's claims data, whether it's, you know, the epidemiology data to really substantiate and validate the strategies that we come up with, but to ensure execution that's going to net us some ROI and help us to mitigate risk because we know that industry is very risk averse. So that's where I see the opportunity. And again, in real time, I've been doing it, you know, in a consulting role, but also as a provider as a KOL in many different spaces. So I'm seeing, you know, real impact in real time.
Deborah Borfitz
I know there's been some rays of hope in the quest for health equity and trials across companies and therapeutic areas. I'm sure it goes beyond maybe the two you were referencing of sort of generically, but I've heard this mostly framed in terms of the adoption of digital tools and culturally tailored materials and purposeful community engagement, which I think you were getting to a little bit. I'd love to hear from each of you about what you've observed that has worked particularly well. Like the best practices are not just documented as good ideas, but are proven out when put into action.
Ramona Burress
Yeah. Proper planning, I think, leads it, right, Cass? Proper planning, finding the right partner.
Cassandra O'Neal
Yeah.
Ramona Burress
Yeah. And you know, it's funny because Cassandra and I were talking about this a couple of days ago, and recognizing too that when you find the right partner that can deliver and can do it in such a way that's authentic, that respects the sanctity of that community relationship, patient privacy, patient data, it becomes a role that procurement should play more with making sure that these partners, because they're they're vendors, air quotes, but a lot of times they are, you know, key opinion leaders from a physician perspective, or a non-for-profit, or a patient advocacy group, or a small boutique firm as opposed to some of these larger entities that we tend to work with in industry, right? The Madison Avenue marketing firms, but maybe it's a smaller, more startup entity. But that's where procurement can help, you know, identify who are the stars that are doing those kind of novel, anecdotal stories of success that maybe need to be positioned somewhere else across the portfolio, either for a late development asset or an early development asset, and also help to, you know, get them through this arduous vendor process with being able to do business within the company and massaging payment terms and things like that, right? So I think that is a way that we can continue support from how we've seen it done anecdotally. But Cass, I know you you have a vision for the much larger piece of this.
Cassandra O'Neal
But I think, Ramona, I think you touched on, you know, again, going back to operational, you know, barriers and and how can you actually get this embedded. That's it, that's huge. And I do I remember working, this is years ago when I was at a sponsor, working on identifying suppliers, you know, vendors, partners, however we term it, that could help us with our health equity and specifically our clinical trial equity efforts. And procurement was essentially a gatekeeper. They absolutely were. They knew and and there was opportunity for them to know who were the players in that space to present it to not only, you know, our team, but also to other teams across the organization. I think that I think that's a really important point that you made up. And we talk about well, are we comparing apples to apples as it relates to a lot of the organizations that work in this space, a lot of the partners that work in this space, they may not have the same resources as some of the larger firms. So what do we do to make sure they too have an equitable, you know, role or or or opportunity to support the work that we're trying to do? So I think that's a really important point.
Cassandra O'Neal
And I actually, as I always have, and I believe I always will, just have a heart for the communities and for the patients we we serve. And one of the things, and I'll always, you know, focus on the importance of engaging with people, engaging with patients, engaging with communities, and really understanding what their needs are, listening. So where I've seen a lot of sustainable and impactful effort from partner organizations, from you know, vendors that play a role and are pharma adjacent, but certainly work within farm, is looking at trust, really looking at rebuilding or building, because maybe it wasn't there to begin with, right? Building trust with communities, building trust with patients. And so what does that mean? That means you have to show up where the patients are, that means you have to not be transactional, that means you have to be able to have bold conversations with community members and patients and address their concerns, not what you want to tell them, right?
Cassandra O'Neal
But really helping them achieve a better understanding around the role we all play, we pharma in the healthcare system, the role they play, and that we truly are partners. I think the efforts that I've seen that that again are just sustainable and have been around for a while, yes, we're all looking at AI and the role of technology. And there's a great role for technology and AI in this conversation, but it will never, in my personal opinion, substitute for actually having a conversation with people on a humanistic level, connecting with them, addressing and understanding their concern, their concerns. I think there's no substitute for that. And that's where I'm seeing, you know, the organizations that have sustainability, that's where they're focusing effort. Not just there, but that's like, you know, kind of a cornerstone to the work they do.
Ramona Burress
And it can be done, right? It can be operationalized. This isn't like hokey stuff that we're speaking of. Like how do we get in communities and get in front of patients in that ecosystem before the business requires us to we got clinical development plans. We've got, you know, 180 days out from this milestone or 90 days out from this milestone. It takes nothing for us to kind of do something in the community to start to listen, to start to better understand as we prep to approach that milestone. So this isn't something that's far-fetched or, you know, again, hokey pokey. This could really be integrated into the asset plans, the clinical development plans that are already out there in the sponsor spaces.
Cassandra O'Neal
Absolutely. And just one other thing, Deb. Sorry, I have to say this because I thought of this earlier.
Deborah Borfitz
Oh, go, go, Cass.
Cassandra O'Neal
This is what we do. We we bounce off of one another. But Ramona, you you said something earlier in in your response about Metaffairs. And I it made me think about, you know, how the industry is is very focused and has been for years on this notion of personalized care and you know, precision models and precision medicine. And that at one point was like, oh my gosh, what does that mean? How are we going to explain that to people, to patients? They understand, you know, the importance of their participation, kind of where medicine and science is going. I actually think that we should apply that same lens, that personalized care and precision model to how we engage with patients. I really feel like it's the same thing, perhaps not on a scientific level, although there is some science that you could apply to this, you know, going back to the trust and you know, psychological safety and all of that. But I think if we just think about it in those terms that it's not a one-size-fits-all, which we always say, but what does that mean on the other side of that comment? And if we don't know our patients, we don't know our communities, we don't know how to engage with them, then all of these efforts, they may not actually get into the communities. They may not be accepted by the communities. And so I just will always think that it's a cornerstone. And thinking about it in those terms is how I think about how do you do, and I'm using error quotes here, health equity. Yeah.
A New PhD Path For Equity
Deborah Borfitz
Okay, Cass, I'm gonna stick with you here for just a minute. And I want to end with this. I want to end with a word about a first of its kind PhD in global health equity program being offered by Maharry Medical College in Nashville, where I happen to be. Cass, I know you were just accepted to be among the second wave of students. This fossil first, congratulations. And I assume also you know quite a bit about the approach being taken there to solve some of the real world issues that are leading to disparities and inequities. What can what can you tell us about this equipping program and perhaps others like it and their potential to help move the needle?
Cassandra O'Neal
Thank you. Yes, yes, yes. When we spoke in Florida, I you know was just waiting to kind of navigate through the process. But yes, very happy to have been accepted into the PhD program in global health equity at Meharry Medical College. It's a newer program. I believe I'm I would be entering the third cohort starting this fall. I know it's moving fast, but I'm extremely privileged and proud and honored to be accepted into this type of program at Meharry. I have to be honest, I've been thinking about a PhD for years, probably close to 15 years. And there was never a subject area that I felt passionate enough that I'd want to endure the rigor of a PhD program until I found this one at Meharry. This program is a one of its kind. There is, to my knowledge, no other PhD in global health equity program. And I think it signals the boldness of the institution because this is a time where one could argue health equity is maybe not the hottest topic, right? It's certainly not. We can see, you know, how DEI health equity are very sensitive topics right now, whereas Meharry has decided and for the past few years decided that they're doubling down and they are going to create this PhD program in in a discipline that is needed.
Cassandra O'Neal
Meharry is has been around, I think they're celebrating their 150th year that they've been around educating communities of of color and really making sure that they are focused on the topics, the concerns, the strategies that one needs to make sure the health of underserved community is, you know, kind of forefront. They've advanced advanced care for underrepresented communities for all of this time. And it's just it's really an honor to be part of it. This program will really equip me, I would say, as I think about like, why would I do this? Why would I put myself through this? I love the content area. I will never get tired of learning about, you know, how health inequities have have persisted. Where do they start from? And it will also help me get additional tools that I can use to look at this conversation from a broader global effort, looking at the systems and policies that, you know, continue to keep health inequities alive and well. I'll just leave it there. But it's a really, really, really important program, especially given where we are right now and the opportunities to bridge what you know what we have going on here in the United States, but also on a global scale and share and learn from other nations, you know, what they're doing to lift the the health of their communities and their their citizens. So really excited to start and I'll keep you posted on how it goes. But I will start this fall.
Deborah Borfitz
Excellent.
Ramona Burress
I'm excited for you. Yeah, because it's like, you know, so Cass and I have been in the trenches, right? And I hate to use that colloquial term, but it's very true.
Deborah Borfitz
Okay.
Ramona Burress
And I think, you know, experience is the currency of the future. We know this. But what I see here is just an opportunity for that mastery, right? Cass has come up with different frameworks, but now how do we apply that to better understand the methodology and things of how we, you know, need to get these things executed, right? And so for me, I recognize that our leaders in this space who will be most effective are those that can connect science, the patient journey, the patient experience to the execution. So I'm excited to see Cassandra go through and come out of this PhD program and take over the world because back to the back to the whom holds this, you know, work and its responsibility. You know, those are the spaces that she and I need to be in, to be very blunt. I told someone last week, I am not going to be back in this space if I'm not at a VP level, because it requires, you know, that type of buy-in, that type of budget responsibility to make sure that we can get this done and get this integrated the way that it should be.
Deborah Borfitz
All right. Well put as usual. Thank you, Ramona, for that. It sounds like the future for health equity and clinical trials is indeed bright. It's still a bit fragile. But the two of you are certainly two shining stars on the landscape. Cassandra and Ramona, thank you for your efforts to push the industry from talk to action in ways that transform visions of trust with marginalized communities into measurable realities with benefits for both patients needing medicines and the companies who are making them.
Ramona Burress
Thank you, Dab.
Deborah Borfitz
Thanks for having us. Thank you for being here. And as always, a big thank you to everyone out there for listening in. If you're not subscribed to this podcast yet, please consider going to Apple Podcasts and doing so right now so you don't miss your monthly dose of news and perspective. She'll be hard pressed to find anywhere else. And if you're up for it, I'd also be so very grateful if you'd leave a rating and review while you're there. For more straight talk on studies involving humans, visit Clinical Research News Online.com. And if you're a clinical research professional, we hope also to see you at our next Scope Conference, where we make things happen. Bye for now.